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  • Mobile-Dom - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    So close MSI, If only you'd have included DisplayPort instead of DVI, it can be adapted down to nearly everything else, DVI just needs to die already
  • Qasar - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    dvi needs to die?? you havent noticed that they are STILL putting VGA ports on some NEW monitors ?? i think the industry needs to kill the vga port 1st... then maybe work on the dvi port :-)
  • tulx - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    VGA is not going anywhere for a while, though. It's still alive and kicking in the business sector. Almost all customers I visit have projectors with VGA a connection only and that lovely 4:3 aspect ratio. So I'm very glad my Dell E5550 has a VGA port. Otherwise I'd be lugging around around adapters like a Mac user...
  • Kevin G - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    The problem with replacing the VGA port for such use-cases isn't the projector or the laptop: both have migrated away (generally to HDMI).

    The catch is actually cabling as those VGA runs can go around the entire parameter of a room before reaching their destination. If you're lucking, you can use active HDMI copper cabling that can go upward of 75 ft reliability for in-wall installation (they do make 100 ft cables but I wouldn't trust them for that distance). There are active HDMI cables that convert to fiber at each end but those can be flaky as they require a bit of drive power to run the transceivers which not all electronics can provide. A simple powered HDMI switch or distribution amplifier tends to solve the power issue but can invoke the wraith of HDCP. Then there are all the flaws of dealing with fiber on top of ends that cannot be swapped out. HDBaseT is the more ideal solution as it can use Cat5E cabling (though Cat6A shields is preferred for long runs) and a transmitter/receiver pair can be powered together from a single end. The big downside for HDbaseT is that it is expensive with a transmitter/receiver pair starting at $250 per port. Switchers and distribution amplifiers with HDbaseT are also more expensive versus their HDMI-only counter parts. The one area where HDBaseT might save money is in the actual cable run as many venues already have Cat5E cabling going to a projector to handle networking controllers (remote power on etc.). Depending on the venue, it can cost thousands of dollars to install a relatively inexpensive Cat6A cable.
  • Flunk - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Not true at all, none of the current crop of GPUs supports VGA anymore. This is where VGA dies.
  • Manch - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    DisplayPort, HDMI, and DVI can all output VGA with a passive adapter. VGA aint dying anytime soon.
  • Death666Angel - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    Please don't spread fud. If you have DVI-I or DVI-A, you can get an easy analog signal out of it. With HDMI and DisplayPort, you already need an active converter, because they are digital signals only. And the current crop of graphics cards don't offer native analog signals anymore (just Google "analog signal GTX 10 / R9 / Rx480" etc.) The DVI ports are the -D variant. I believe there are only some specialty vendors that add the analog conversion straight to their PCB, but not in the normal gamer focused markets.
  • DanNeely - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    Interesting. I didn't realize there were specialty makers bundling an active VGA adapter on card. When I saw that none of the gaming OEMs had done so (my old GPUs retired to a KVMed compute cluster, so I was looking for one when I bought my 1080) I'd assumed that AMD and NVidia had drawn a line in the sand and banned including them.
  • Manch - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - link

    My bad, I thought that as long as the card supported it, you didn't need an active adapter. I didn't realize AMD and Nvidia stopped supporting them on their ref designs for consumer cards. I have a few hdmi to vga, and a DP to VGA adapters. I paid a few bucks for each. Didn't think they were active since theyre soo cheap.
  • Pneumothorax - Thursday, February 23, 2017 - link

    look closely at the DVI port, it's missing the VGA pins on the bottom. Now look at your DVI/VGA adapters, notice there's pins where the metal 'bar' is at. The lack of the pins means no more cheap passive adapters.
  • Ro_Ja - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Server Computers still have D-Sub ports.

    They should've added a DVI, HDMI and a DisplayPort and included a low profile bracket.
  • epobirs - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link

    This has already happened. 2015 was the agreed upon sunset year for VGA by most companies. Most of the items you can still buy with VGA are models predating that deadline or aimed at non-consumer markets.
  • nightbringer57 - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    It can be updated, at some cost, while DVI-VGA adapters are ubiquitous and cheap.

    This is a low-end GPU.

    Shame that it doesn't have DP.
  • StevoLincolnite - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    This GPU isn't single slot. It misses a chunk of it's target audience, which is the big let down.
  • Death666Angel - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    If it misses its target audience, it's not really the target audience, is it?
  • barleyguy - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Agreed.

    Buy an old Dell with a Sandy Bridge processor for $40, add this card, and you've got a usable gaming PC for around $150. I think that is the target audience. That and people upgrading similar machines.
  • StevoLincolnite - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    I have a similar machine as that. But... It can only handle single slot GPU's.
  • BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - link

    In a number of OEM systems, 75W TDP is still a little bit on the high side for old half-height retired Dell business systems. I've had success with a GT 730, but it's rated at 23 or 25W TDP (DDR3 or GDDR5 depending) in a Sandy Bridge-based Optiplex 390 slim desktop, but I suspect any card closer to 75W would simply be too much for the PSU. More importantly though, the slot isn't rated to handle over 35W so it's well under spec for normal PCI-e 16x slots. The mini tower version of the Optiplex 390 doesn't have that problem, but IIRC the PSU is rated at 250W so it might need to be replaced with something a bit more powerful.
  • barleyguy - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Passive DVI to VGA converters require DVI-I, which this card doesn't have.
  • ddriver - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    Nothing's wrong with DVI, this is a budget product that is very likely to be bundled with an older display. This will eliminate spending extra money on adapters. I am all for DP, but it doesn't get anywhere near the adoption it should, while pretty much everything has HDMI, so logically if the goal is to minimize cost for a budget product, DVI + HDMI is the most logical choice of interfaces, providing support for both legacy and contemporary displays.
  • bill.rookard - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    DVI doesn't need to die. With a single port, and the right cable, a DVI-I can support:

    VGA monitor/projector. Use a passive DVI-A -> VGA adapter.
    DVI-D monitor. Use a straight DVI-D cable.
    DVI-A monitor. Use a straight DVI-A cable.
    HDMI monitor. Use a DVI-D -> HDMI cable.

    So - one port, 4 types of monitors.

    Combine that with one display port and you can support any type of monitor out there, and if you wire the DVI port for sound, you can hook to any HDMI equipped TV as well. It's a very versatile port.

    Yes, HDMI 2.0 is more forward looking, displayport has more support for higher resolutions, but not everyone is running a 4k60 monitor. Most people are using basic 1080p setups.
  • thomasg - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    This sounds good, but only on paper.

    VGA works, if the output device gives a VGA signal on the port (not guaranteed).
    DVI-A is said VGA signal on the DVI port, no difference there (not guaranteed).
    DVI-D <-> DVI-D generally works - except when either the input or the output or the cable can't do Dual-Link, in which case even this simplest of scenarios can give trouble. Luckily in reality there are virtually no DVI-A devices, so at least not more trouble there.
    HDMI uses the same electrical signal as DVI-D, so it generally works - but of course not if DVI-A is used on the output, which is opaque to the user.

    Lastly, few people know, that there are actually 2(!) DVI-D electrical signals. DVI-Video and DVI-PC. If one device only speaks DVI-Video and the other one DVI-PC (this is possible), colors won't match.
    Lastly, while you can plug HDMI into DVI-D ports via an passive adapter, it won't support all HDMI features, which might be obvious to you and me, but not every user. For example, sound just won't work, when users expect it to work via HDMI on their TVs.

    Long story short: DVI: 2 electrical signals, 4 different cables (1 of them universally DVI compatible), 4 different sockets (1 of them universally DVI compatible), basic but never full passive HDMI compatibility. No DisplayPort compatibility. No possible full HDMI compatibility via active adapter.
  • bananaforscale - Thursday, February 23, 2017 - link

    Actually, DP and HDMI are electrically compatible (at least up to a point), so *5* different sockets.
  • barleyguy - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    The analog DVI port is called DVI-I. A for analog of course makes more sense, but that doesn't mean you can make up your own acronyms and have them be correct. ;-)
  • barleyguy - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Addendum: Wikipedia claims that DVI-A does exist, but it's a DVI port with just analog and no digital. I'm not sure it actually exists in the wild.
  • rtho782 - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    HDMI needs to die before DVI. HDMI is far more limited, and was never intended to be a PC standard.

    But yes, the goal should be DP everywhere.
  • BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - link

    I disagree. HDMI is a lot more commonplace regardless of its non-PC origins. DP simply isn't everywhere and if we're going to consolidate around a single screen interface standard, HDMI already is a lot more heavily entrenched and DP is barely a blip on the display radar. In the end, common folk already familiar with HDMI will drive the direction of the industry, dooming DP to live in obscurity with BNC connectors and the Iomega Click drive.
  • Manch - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - link

    Click Drive? That's not the gigantic purple disks is it? It's been a really really long time, but we used those plenty. BNC was never obscure. It was used plenty in the late 80's-mid 90's. Its still used today for some things albeit not it would be considered obscure.
  • BrokenCrayons - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - link

    Well, it was actually marketed under the name Clik! but even I didn't remember it accurately. Here's the Wikipedia entry for it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PocketZip

    I first got my hands on one at a trade show. The Iomega sales folks were offering trinkets and I asked for the PCMCIA version and a couple of disks to show to clients. The drive never took off and ended up a lot like the LS-120/240 (though I still argue the LS-120 was much more useful and practical since it could also replace the 3.5 inch floppy drive).
  • bananaforscale - Thursday, February 23, 2017 - link

    You could say HDMI is more commonplace *thanks to* its non-PC origins.
  • cbm80 - Saturday, February 18, 2017 - link

    The DVI port is for people with old, but still useful, 2560x1600/1440 monitors. They use DL-DVI which can't be passively derived from DP+ or HDMI.

    Though since this generation of video cards has removed analog, the DVI port is not as useful as it was, since you don't get analog out of it.
  • thomasg - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    How many displays using such resolutions and only providing DVI-D do actually exist?
    I can think of only a single one, the ancient Dell 3007WFP (I'm using an almost as ancient 3008WFP which has HDMI and DisplayPort, despite being 9 years old).
  • shabby - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Hp zr30w is another, bought one for $100 recently, love it. It does have dp though.
  • cbm80 - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    The 30" Apple Cinema Display is another one. Also some cheap no-name 27" monitors in recent years.
  • DanNeely - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    I've got an NEC 3090 which was their last pre-display port generation model. Assuming I'm still using it in a year or two (a 32" single cable 5k60 or 4k120 monitor is my next planned major tech purchase) there's a good chance that by default I'll be buying a $80 dual channel DVI adapter. OTOH if I can find a cheap 32" (I want to keep my vertical height) 4k monitor with either an adjustable stand or a standard VESA mount (so I can swap a good stand in) I might go that way instead. It'd be more up front, but the power savings would work out to something like $20-50/year (the 3090's a pig and running AC doubles the cost for a decent chunk of the year) and there's the question of how much longer the elderly display I've got will actually last for.
  • Powerlurker - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - link

    All those budget Korean panels that were popular a few years ago (Qnix, Crossover, etc.) before affordable IPS panels started being sold by more reputable manufacturers for one. They were primarily made for the internet cafe market as noname companies would buy A-/B+ IPS panels, slap them in a cheap chassis with only a DL DVI-D input and sell them on eBay for ~$400 shipped from Korea when an IPS monitor of any quality from a US distributor would cost at least 60% more.
  • mm0zct - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link

    My Dell u2711 is 2560x1440 and can only be driven at native resolution by DisplayPort and Dual-Link DVI.

    I use it with two systems - a Dell laptop dock which only has DP and single-link DVI, so this has to use the DisplayPort connection, and my Desktop, which uses one of the DVI inputs.

    Losing DVI support on my desktop would mean having to switch cables around every time I want to switch from work (my company issued Dell laptop) to my personal PC, and back. Alternatively I could shell out stupid money for the updated Dock with dual-link DVI support, but I'm quite happy with the gen1 £12 ebay purchase that lets me use my laptop with my monitor at home (the laptop only has HDMI+VGA).
  • samer1970 - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    We need RX460 in single slot low profile design and it is doable using notebook cooling fans and heatpipes...
  • Hurn - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Well, the card is clearly low profile. Wonder if it comes with a low profile bracket (in addition to the full height bracket shown in the pics).
  • samer1970 - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    hurn, its low profile but it is dual slot card ...
  • Meteor2 - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Yes that seems fairly pointless. Perhaps it contains less materials so is more profitable to produce?
  • DanNeely - Sunday, February 19, 2017 - link

    Half height dual slot fits in a decent number of slimline cases and is an appealing option there because it allows a 75-90W card with reasonable fan noise levels vs 40-50W for a single slot design. Users of the latter also suffer from being even farther down the launch pipeline with each new generation.
  • samer1970 - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    Actually , you can make a half height low profile GTX 1070/GTX1060 card in dual slot mode if you use notebook heatpipes and fans.

    and what are they giving us ? a DUAL SLOT rx460 ....

    Open a notebook with a GTX 1060/1070 , get a ruler and start measuring ... it can be fitted on a low profile dual slot card with EASE ...

    it is all about the cost , the notebook heat pipes and fans are $30 more ...

    here is what is doable :

    1- Single Slot AND low Profile GTX 1050 ti , RX460 , Length 170mm
    2- Dual Slots AND Low Profile GTX 1060/1070 ... Length 210mm

    I made the design my self and it is doable. but no one is hearing because they think they will be no Demand for such cards and they are Mistaken.
  • mm0zct - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link

    As others have mentioned, the "desktop" cases from Dell, HP, etc hare half-height, but support as many as 4 or possibly more slots. We've got an HP 8200 here with an Nvidia 710 in it, which is a passive dual-slot half-height card. It was just purchased as the cheapest modern half-height card, for various driver testing/VM type stuff.
  • jardows2 - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    I'm not getting my hopes up for this one. MSI "announced" a similar product based on the 1050 and 1050TI, but I was never able to find them available for sale. Now I cannot even find those products on MSI's website. I fear these cards will be similar vaporware.
  • jardows2 - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link

    Gotta backtrack on this comment a bit. Looks like the 1050 LP model is back on their website, and now available on at least NewEgg. Maybe this will come to fruition as well!
  • bleomycin - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - link

    Is a low profile bracket included or available for this? I'd want to put it in a 2u.
  • samer1970 - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - link

    yes this comes with low profile bracket
  • random2 - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - link

    A 460? Really? had to check the year on this article just to make sure I wasn't stepping back in time. Common Nvidia, there must be more of a demand for lower profile with many people steering away from full size ATX cases. Nothing up your sleeve that might actually enable people to play a triple A title on a smaller form factor?
  • mm0zct - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link

    Maybe you mistook this for an old Nvidia 460? this is AMD's current GPU family. Nvidia make a low profile 1050 for low-profile gaming
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-GTX-1050-Ti-4GT/dp/B0...

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